In my ongoing Semi-Regular Segments, I have a bit I like to call The Believer’s Brain, in which I post the back and forth between myself and people of various belief systems, asking them to explain specifically what their beliefs are and how they know these beliefs to be true. This one will be slightly different, as I am reply to a chain letter a friend received and posted on FB, so I am replying to the person (or people) who originally write it, as well as all those people who forwarded it on, and doubt I’ll get any reply from either group. (as usual, the believer will be in black, while my thoughts are in blue)
Pray if you want to!
You’ll be glad to know, that as an atheist I agree with you 100% on this. If you want to pray, you should, and nobody should stop you.
CBS and Katie Couric et al must be in a panic and rushing to reassure the White House that this is not network policy–re: Andy Rooney’s commentary on prayer.
Why would Katie Couric give a crap? Did the writer of this just pick the only person on CBS they knew? Do they not realize that Katie is not the White House correspondent, is not the head of the network, is not Andy Rooney’s boss (we’ll get back to him in a bit), and is not in any way the person who would have anything to do, from an HR or PR perspective, with talking to the White House (or anybody else) ab out what a different personality from that network said (or did not actually say).
Folks, this is the year that we RE-TAKE AMERICA & CANADA
This year? 2010? Or the next 12 months, ending in late 2011? Or 1999, which happens to be the year that this was actually written?
********* Get Ready *********
Keep this going around the globe. Read it and forward every time you receive it.. We can’t give up on this issue.
Andy Rooney and Prayer
Why is it that so many people pass on these types of chain letters without at least a quick google search? It took me all of 8 seconds to find that this was not written by Andy Rooney, and at least 4 seconds of that was opening up a beer. Any time somebody gets a chain letter like this the first thing they SHOULD do is delete it, but for those who don’t delete it, they should check out Snopes.com, which has all of the correct information on almost every one of these types of things that has been around for more than a couple days.
For instance, with regards to this email, Snopes points out:
| Although it has been variously attributed to long-time radio commentator Paul Harvey, political commentator Andy Rooney, and to someone named Samuel Thompson, most of it is the work of Nick Gholson, a sports writer for the Times Record News in Wichita Falls, Texas. Gholson’s September 1999 essay (which was a fair bit longer than the version later circulated via e-mail) decried the prohibition against school-led prayer at high school football games. It kicked off with a few paragraphs about the need for a sense of humor which prefaced the following bit, leading into the Internet-circulated version’s “I don’t believe in Santa Claus …” opening: |
And this does not even bring up the fact that Andy Rooney has often called himself an atheist, an agnostic, and a humanist.
Andy Rooney says:
I don’t believe in Santa Claus, but I’m not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December.
I agree. People have the right to sing christmas songs, to sing chanukah songs, or even *gasp* country music, if they so choose.
I don’t agree with Darwin , but I didn’t go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution.
I don’t agree with everything Darwin said/wrote either. In fact nobody does. But the Theory Of Evolution is one of the best tested scientific theories around today, and tells us as much, or more, than any other scientific idea ever conceived.
Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game.
You are correct in what you say, but not in the way you think. Strictly speaking, your praying does no harm to me, nor anybody else.
So what’s the big deal?
The big deal is…
Really, I’ve been waiting since I first began reading this to get around to this point, and now that I’m here I want to savor it for a moment, I hope you don’t mind.
The big deal is… Having that prayer pushed by the government is a violation of the First Amendment to the US Constitution. When schools (or employees of schools) push prayer on students, they are violating the law.
| Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. |
You see, by having a public school (which is a government institution), or any representative of the school, leading a prayer, it is violating the Separation of Church and State. This is a concept that Thomas Jefferson, among many of the other “founders” of this country, felt very strongly about, and made sure to incorporate into the Bill Of Rights. The evidence for this concept is really something for it’s own post, but for now I’ll just say that you should look into the Treaty Of Tripoli.
It’s not like somebody is up there reading the entire Book of Acts. They’re just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.
But it’s a Christian prayer, some will argue.
No, I would argue if it is was a practice of ANY religion, not just christianity. It does not matter who’s religion it promotes, it all equally violates the law, and should all equally not be part of any government support.
Yes, and this is the United States of America and Canada , countries founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect — somebody chanting Hare Krishna?
This is something known as Tyranny Of The Majority. I’ve gone into detail on this previously, so I won’t waste a lot of space here, other than to point out one small part of that post I wrote (and while in that post I was talking about gar marriage, the argument is equally apt here):
| We are not talking about granting a group special rights because of their minority status, we are talking about giving them equal rights under the law. One of the very foundations of this country is that ALL people are created equal. Not all white people. Not all straight people. But ALL people.Whichever side of this particular issue you are on, think about the day when you, or your children or their children are in a minority group. Should you be discriminated against just because you’re in a minority group? Of course not. When it comes to matters of civil rights, the Tyranny of the Majority is the wrong way to go, even if it is technically “democratic”. |
If I went to a football game in Jerusalem , I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.
If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad , I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.
If I went to a ping pong match in China , I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.
And I wouldn’t be offended. It wouldn’t bother me one bit.
When in Rome …..
One important difference though. Those countries do not have our Bill of Rights, which says that government can not endorse a religion. If you want a government to endorse your religion, this is not the country to have it done in, as our founders, for all their faults, seemed to have some foresight in this area.
But what about the atheists? Is another argument.
What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We’re not going to pass the collection plate. Just humour us for 30 seconds. If that’s asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!
Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don’t think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world’s foundations.
Nobody is saying you can’t pray. If you want to waste your time talking to yourself, then so be it. What we are saying, is that the law should be followed, and that the government (or any agent of the government) should not be leading, endorsing, or promoting your prayers.
Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep.
And you should feel free to do so. On your own, without the government telling you to do so. And at the same time, I should feel comfortable that the government will not tell me or my children to pray.
Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing.
And Matthew 6:6 tells you:
| But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. |
Sorry to point out that I know your hold book better than you do, but it’s true.
Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying.
Sorry, once again, but this is a flat out lie. No court in US history has EVER said you can’t pray. They have said that just like every other citizen in the country, you must abide by the law.
God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well, just sue me.
Shockingly, you’re right no matter the truth of your statement.
If it was true it would offend me. Nobody has a right to tell you that you can’t talk to your make believe sky daddy.
And since it’s a lie it offends me in the same way that all lies offend me.
The silent majority has been silent too long. It’s time we tell that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority doesn’t care what they want. It is time that the majority rules! It’s time we tell them, “You don’t have to pray; you don’t have to say the Pledge of Allegiance; you don’t have to believe in God or attend services that honour Him. That is your right, and we will honour your right; but by golly, you are no longer going to take our rights away. We are fighting back, and we WILL WIN!”
Nobody, and I repeat NOBODY, is telling christian they can not pray.
What we are saying is that you must follow the law, and in this case, specifically the First Amendment to the Constitution.
It does not matter how many times you repeat a lie, it won’t become true. And it does not matter how many times you twist the facts, they won’t change.
Nobody has taken away any of your rights, we have just demanded that you don’t trample on the founding document of this country.
God bless us one and all… Especially those who denounce Him,
You tell um Tiny Tim…
God bless America and Canada , despite all our faults, We are still the greatest nations of all.
By what metric exactly?
Life expectancy, no.
Health and well being, no.
Standard of living, no.
Happiness of citizens, no.
So what metric SPECIFICALLY are we the “greatest” in?
God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God.
As Bob Dylan said so eloquently:
If God’s on our side
He’ll stop the next war |
Let’s make 2010 the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions.
Yes, like back in the early days of the country, when men were men, and others other men, because of the color of their skin.
Oh, and women had no rights.
And children were forced into labor at an early age.
Let’s go back to THAT time… *rolls eyes*
Dumbass…
And our military forces come home from all the wars.
Keep looking up.
For once we agree 100%, and with no qualifications.
If you agree with this, please pass it on.
If not delete it.
Or, don’t agree, and point out all the flaws in your post. I think I’m gonna take that option… It sounds the most fun.
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